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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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poser1929
Member

Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts:
281
Location: England

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:54
pm    Post
subject:

nellis
wrote:

Further to this, the
allegation that there is some grand conspiracy
between ourselves and Atari is again wrong.

Because of the long lead
times for magazines and the fact that it was an
exclusive review, the code we reviewed from was
not final. We were made aware of some bugs in
the game and were promised that these would be
sorted by the time of
release.

First of all, huge respect
for coming on here to give us your point of view.

Ok, it's no 'grand conspiracy' but that
idea was always a bit over the top. What you have
implied though is what I was hinting at earlier -
an unwritten convention that they'll bung you an
exclusive, you'll give them a higher mark.

You say that you have never been told to
do it from on high, or in exchange for a bribe
etc. But you have admitted that you 'ignored' the
bugs, on the company's word that they would be
taken out. Atari would say that, though, wouldn't
they?

Ok, it's a less sinister way of
doing things, you haven't met them in a car park
and exchanged brown paper bags stuffed with cash,
but you have still given them a high mark in
exchange for an early review.

Serious
question:

If a less high-profile game was
reviewed and it featured the bugs that you admit
your magazine picked up on but ignored in Driv3r,
would it have been given a 9/10
rating?
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[counts on finger] one man!"

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Stephen
Member

Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts:
156
Location: Japan

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:56
pm    Post
subject:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

the one and only
wrote:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

Stephen
wrote:

Sorry - but anyone giving that
particular game a nine ( and possibly parting
anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a
prick.

If you don't get banned
for this, you're a lucky
man.

Banned for telling the
truth. What a feeling that must
be.

Well, I've seen people
banned for less around here. After all, the guy
didn't have to come on here, and probably won't
again if this is the reception he gets (some
trumped up hardcore gamer calling him a prick).

Whatever, I'm just grateful we'd have a
reply.... saying that though, whatever actually
did happen, his reply would read the same
anyway. He's hardly likely to come on here and
say "Yes, you were all right, they slipped me a
crisp £20 note to give it a good mark - it's
shite
really"...

Nothing to do with being
trumped-up. Just someone who works full time, and
has to pay full price for every game that he buys.
It's nice to know that some people take issue with
the sh*t that's printed in magazines for the sake
of an "exclusive". I buy at least six games a
month over five platforms- and I like to be
semi-aware of what is sh*t and what isn't. I've
played games since the mid-seventies (don't know
what status that affords me - customer,
perhaps)

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the one and
only
Veteran
Member

Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts:
5656
Location: The Millenium Dome

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:58
pm    Post
subject:

No-one here was born
yesterday. No-one here is thick as poo (arguable,
I know). No-one here can't sniff out something
dodgy.

Granted, insults aren't the way
forward, but I've come to trust this forum's
general consensus of a title I'm intrested in more
that gaming mags.

There are some great
gaming mags out there. I always enjoy reading NGC
and EDGE, and before handing over my cash I always
check the magazine score to see where the game
stands in terms of quality.

After reading
from page 5-9 of this thread, I feel that my money
is under threat.

£40 is money. It's my
money. It's my choice to spend it on what I want
to buy.

However, with so many games out
there, choice can be difficult. Magazines help me
make the choice. If magazines are going to start
making blatantly awful choices for me though, I
feel my money is simply not safe.

It's a
sh*t feeling, too.

(Sorry if I'm warbling
on)
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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6605
Location: Certainty

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:58
pm    Post
subject:

Eighthours
wrote:

By the way, anyone remember
this?

psm2, on this very
forum on Tuesday June 8
wrote:

Hello there,

PSM2 here.
Respect to all forum men. We love your work.

Some facts:
The Driv3r code was
and is finished.
The score was a
group descision (as are all our review marks).

We liked it (and the things we didn't like
are ripped apart in the review).

Thanks,

PSM2.

Can we sue?

AND.....the contribution from Mr Ellis
makes it clear that Atari told the guys at Xbox
World that their review copy wasn't final code.

I'm quite disturbed that someone came on
here a couple of weeks ago from PSM2 and told us
a blatant
lie.

Bump.
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GwiDan
Veteran Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts:
5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:59
pm    Post
subject:

KKLEIN
wrote:

An in-depth preview would of
sufficed. Reading your review the reader is lead
to believe the game is great, which it's not.
The reader is led to believe the game was
finished, which it wasn't. The reader was lead
to believe the game was near perfect, which it
isn't. It's just plain
dishonesty.

After all this fuss has
been kicked up, I suspect that an apology for an
overhigh review score will be published in the
aformentioned magazines. In size 0.5 print at the
very bottom of the back cover. It's always the
case that people don't stand down or apologize
when they're blatantly wrong.

Didn't a lot
of the Edge staff resign over "bribery" issues?
The official line was "over-commercialism", which
you can pretty easily read as "the board being
paid off by publishers and we weren't having any
of it..."

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:59
pm    Post
subject:

Eighthours
wrote:

By the way, anyone remember
this?

psm2, on this very
forum on Tuesday June 8
wrote:

PSM2 here. Respect to
all forum men. We love your work.

Some
facts:
The
Driv3r code was and is finished.

Thanks,

PSM2.

Can we
sue?

Good memory. Someone is lying
to us. Again. See that thing over the wall there?
It's a hole.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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the one and
only
Veteran
Member

Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts:
5656
Location: The Millenium Dome

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:01
pm    Post
subject:

SQUARE 1
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you, boo!
...oh, wrong box.
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Steve
Moderator

Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts:
7344
Location: Hill Valley circa 1955

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:02
pm    Post
subject:

Well I've
uncovered some more info on Atari's dealings with
regards to the press and Driv3r. It makes for some
bloody shocking reading and my 'source' claims
"....for reference, DRIV3R got 9/10 in both Xbox
World and PSM2. They were both pre-agreed". Of
course this totally goes against what Nick posted
on page 8. But who's to be believed?

Anyway, I've got footy after work so I
will respond to Nick's post and shed some more
light on Atari's PR tactics this evening. Stay
tuned folks, you're in for some eye-opening
info.
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Cal
Experienced Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts:
1324

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:04
pm    Post
subject:

Eighthours
wrote:

Bump.

Speaking of bumps, how come
your post count is so high all of a sudden, Eight?
Have they given you permission to fiddle about
with the Top Secret Mods Controls? Have you been
sneaking in a higher post count - say a few
hundred per day, hoping no one will notice? I
could swear just a few weeks ago you were only at
about 2.5k. So how come you're suddenly over 6k?
Either you've been a busy boy or you've been
economical with the actualité.

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:04
pm    Post
subject:

There are two
concepts at stake here - honesty and trust. Having
a point of view is perfectly valid and absolutely
necessary. Disagreeing with the popular point of
view is certainly valid. However missing so many
factually accurate flaws is simply
unacceptable.
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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6605
Location: Certainty

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:06
pm    Post
subject:

Steve
wrote:

Well I've uncovered some more
info on Atari's dealings with regards to the
press and Driv3r. It makes for some bloody
shocking reading and my 'source' claims "....for
reference, DRIV3R got 9/10 in both Xbox World
and PSM2. They were both pre-agreed". Of course
this totally goes against what Nick posted on
page 8. But who's to be believed?

Anyway, I've got footy after work so I
will respond to Nick's post and shed some more
light on Atari's PR tactics this evening. Stay
tuned folks, you're in for some eye-opening
info.

I look forward to reading
it Steve, but please be as candid as you can about
how who your source is, how he get his info, and
any links to corroborating evidence that you can
provide. Obviously without actually getting anyone
into trouble, of
course!!!
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Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
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GwiDan
Veteran Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts:
5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:06
pm    Post
subject:

Steve
wrote:

Well I've uncovered some more
info on Atari's dealings with regards to the
press and Driv3r. It makes for some bloody
shocking reading and my 'source' claims "....for
reference, DRIV3R got 9/10 in both Xbox World
and PSM2. They were both pre-agreed". Of course
this totally goes against what Nick posted on
page 8. But who's to be believed?

Anyway, I've got footy after work so I
will respond to Nick's post and shed some more
light on Atari's PR tactics this evening. Stay
tuned folks, you're in for some eye-opening
info.

No disrespect to Nick, but
frankly, anyone can create a well constructed post
that dissects every criticism so far while still
containing a complete pack of lies.

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:07
pm    Post
subject:

Nellis used to
dress up as Harry Potter you know. He was a Judge
too you know. Oh yes.

Anyway, Nellis the
Elephant has obviously packed his trunk & gone
off to the circus as he was on here 5 minutes ago,
but quickly left. He's probably done a
runner!
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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nellis
Starting Member

Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts:
5

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:08
pm    Post
subject:

The PS2 code
was finished, PSM2 were not lying. Sony and MS
have different submission deadlines, the PS2 code
is always finished first with multi-platform
titles. The code we had was a few weeks off - the
game in it's entirety was there - cutscenes,
sound, whatever - the remaining dev time was for
polishing, we were told. As I said in my original
post, I will look at the boxed game tonight and
post again tomorrow.

I fail to see how the
Stephen is qualified to comment on a game that he
has NOT EVEN PLAYED. Jeez...

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:12
pm    Post
subject:

Agreed.

I'm looking forward to seeing this play
out. In the end, people are going to either have
to put their hands up and admit they made a
mistake (or worse) or our goldfish like brains
will make us forget this ever
happened
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