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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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jamiej
Member

Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts:
288

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:08
pm    Post
subject:

Someone from
PSW????
_________________
Carpe diem-seize
the donut.

Currently playing=

Ps2=Final Fantasy X-2/prince of persia

Xbox=voodoo vince/full spectrum warrior

Gamecube=Wind waker/metroid

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:10
pm    Post
subject:

jamiej
wrote:

Someone from
PSW????

Who?
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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Venkman90
Starting Member

Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts:
43
Location: North by NorthWest

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:10
pm    Post
subject:

I've

Quote:

finally stopped laughing.

Right. *Cracks Knuckles*

Nick,
this isn't aimed directly at you. These
decisions were made above you, by people who
have sent you here to get a kicking in their
place because they are spineless t*ssers afraid
to speak for themselves. Why isn’t your editor
here? You're not responsible for this mess.
Where’s your publisher?

So, I'm sorry.

Oh, and I AM expecting Future types to
delete this post, so read it quick.

nellis wrote:
First off I'd like to
totally refute the suggestion that magazines,
and specifically XBW, take bribes - monetary or
otherwise - to inflate review scores.

Good one. You don't take bribes, I
agree. Bribes are in brown envelopes. THIS is
called business, and it's all agreed and above
board, and rife in the games mag industry. I was
in games mags when you were crawling so I know
how this works. "So we get the first review,
exclusive cover art, and several pages of
premium Atari advertising, and all we have to do
is fool our readers? What a deal!"

nellis wrote:
Further to this, the
allegation that there is some grand conspiracy
between ourselves and Atari - 'you give it a
nine, we'll lob a sticker on the box and a page
in the manual' - is again wrong. The sticker was
agreed on only after the review had been written
and sent to press.

Yes and Atari
agreed to give you the first review regardless
of the score you gave the game too I expect?

nellis wrote:
So to Driv3r. It's
a great game and we stand by the review.

That’s a lowdown dirty trick and you
know it. It’s the best of two bad options isn’t
it mate? Admit that you knowingly lied to your
loyal readership while chugging Satan’s fat one,
or say “We stick by it” when you know that you
don’t stick by it at all (you’re actually crying
inside aren’t you?). This excuse is usually
followed at some point by the “it’s all
subjective” line…

A few years ago
Paragon’s “64 Magazine” uttered the classic
“Mission: Impossible – better than Goldeneye!”.
The response was much the same then. Everyone
went “Eh?”. But instead of admitting that they
had an arrangement with Infogrames (well now,
isn’t that interesting?) they simply “stood by”
one of the insanest statements I’ve ever heard
until the mag eventually closed up shop!

Even EDGE has apologised on occasion
(funnily enough, for not giving GoldenEye a 10),
and they lost no credibility in the process. Be
a man fer chrissakes.

nellis wrote:

Because of the long lead times for magazines
and the fact that it was an exclusive review,
the code we reviewed from was not final.

This sentence makes no sense to me.
I don’t understand. Did you judge The Order of
the Phoenix by that snippet that appeared in the
papers? “Dumbledore sat Harry down…”

It’s a 9!

You cannot review that
which is not finished. By definition this is a
preview.

YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BY NOW.
Shame on you.

nellis wrote:
We were
made aware of some bugs in the game and were
promised that these would be sorted by the time
of release.

Oh My God. You are an
Dep Editor in a games mag. Are you 12? Have you
been doing this job for a week? No. In which
case you have come up against this age-old PR
trick time and time again over your months or
years doing this job have you not? Saying you
believed them doesn't justify your stupidity. Of
course they said the bugs would be sorted out.
THEY ALWAYS DO. And they always lie. Especially
Shitari, as well you know. When was the last
time they released any game that was any cop? If
you discount Transformers and the UT series,
there's been nothing in their catalogue, FOR
YEARS, that was even worth touching. And they're
one of the biggest publishers around? Why?
Because of YOU and people like you. Ubisoft (for
example) have released more great games in the
last six months than Atari / Infogrames have
since the company was fomed. And then there's
Reflections. Driver was good enough. But Driver
2 was unfinished twaddle! Stuntman was
unfinished twaddle! Why did anyone ever believe
that Driver 3 would be anything other than
unfinished twaddle?

nellis wrote:
we
will speak to Atari.

Aaaaaaahhhh ha
ha ha ha ha haaaaa. You going to tell them off
are you? Chide them? Sorry I'm laughing again
now. You're their bitch, NOT the other way
round.

nellis wrote:
Perhaps.

Just stop being an obstinate git and
retract it will you?

nellis wrote:
3
or a 6 would suggest that the game is
fundamentally broken

And you have a
problem with truth do you?

And you'd
give a fundamentally broken game with little
enjoyment value a 6? Oh my.

nellis
wrote:
At the end of the day, Bob, much of
this is surely down to personal opinion and
taste.

This. Right Here.

This is the problem with games reviewing
today. Allows you cheating weasels to slime your
way out of anything. This sentence is equivalent
to saying "Well, the existence of our mag is
pretty f*ck*ng pointless really." Doesn’t it?

On one hand you’re going “buy the mag!
It will help you make the right choice! We are
the vanguard of taste, we know our stuff!” and
on the other you’re going, quietly “But you
might have to discount everything we say as it’s
all just subjective really ain’t it?”

It
is your job to seperate the good games from the
bad ones. This isn't music, this isn't film.
Opinion matters less than in other forms of
media. I like The Mars Volta - they have
produced one of the greatest albums I have ever
heard. Maybe you hate them (probably) but like
Suede instead – whereas I think they are shite.
Music is just taste. Whereas, games can JUST BE
CRAP. I pride myself on being able to tell good
games from bad ones whether I like them or not.
A good reviewer should know the damn difference.
You’re in the wrong career. Get a job in
politics.

nellis wrote:
Can
I point you in the direction of OXM's Shadow Ops
review in their current issue? This is in no way
a personal attack on Gavin Ogden (we'll leave
the petty bitching to Xbox Gamer) but 8/10 is,
in our opinion, a very very high score for the
game.

Some more nice weaselwork.
Good stuff. All you are doing is pointing out
that all you mags are as bad as each other. Only
EDGE and, perhaps even more so, GamesTM can
really be trusted these days. I work for neither
by the way.

nellis wrote:
I'm
currently having a heated discussion with the
boss about Leilani and whether she's hot to trot
or not. She is, he's entirely wrong, I am
entirely right.

It's fundamentally
different mate. If her leg fell off while you
were screwing her, and you'd just paid £44.99
for the privilege you'd be pretty annoyed.

So stop being a dick. XBM, PSM2, all
of you. Your first priority is to your damn
readers. If your reviews can be trusted, you
will be bought by more people, and get
advertising as a result of your reach, rather
than your score massaging skills and ability to
nosh a certain PR guy off.

People in
this industry need to grow a damn backbone and
start speaking the truth before it dies from
under us. Can you imagine Atari’s boardroom
right now? Full of rich old gits that don’t know
anything about games, counting their money and
cheering about how great they are, while the PR
guy stands wafting copies of YOUR mags under
their noses. No-one thinks they’ve put a foot
out of line. They think they’ve made a great
game and are probably planning the next (again,
rushed) instalment right now. Everyone’s
congratulating each other on a job well done –
except it’s not, it’s another step towards the
games industry crash of the early 80s happening
again.

Ironically enough, that crash was
caused by Atari…

Can anyone else hear the
music swell??? You sir...are my hero!

Brought a tear to my eye

Quote:

Best post
ever

What he said

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jamiej
Member

Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts:
288

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:12
pm    Post
subject:

Possibly lee
nutter id guess
_________________
Carpe
diem-seize the donut.

Currently playing=

Ps2=Final Fantasy X-2/prince of persia

Xbox=voodoo vince/full spectrum warrior

Gamecube=Wind waker/metroid

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Cal
Experienced Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts:
1324

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:27
pm    Post
subject:

I really
thought this was going somewhere. I had high hopes
for this thread. I mean, we were all going to make
history, we were going to be somebody. A
real-life expose of the dirty, underhand
double-dealing of the games rags... putt, putt,
puttered into the ground.

Oh well. Anyone
got the new EDGE? Thief: DS 7/10? I'd have given
it an 8. I smell a rat in EDGE Towers.

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bm
Starting Member

Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts:
6

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:41
pm    Post
subject:

As a related
aside, take the "gone gold" stories with a pinch
of salt. They're PR puff, designed simply to get
people writing about a game closer to the release.
In order to manufacture a significant amount of
copies, a game will be in duplication for a much
longer period of time than was claimed in this
case.

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Steve
Moderator

Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts:
7344
Location: Hill Valley circa 1955

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:41
pm    Post
subject:

Cal
wrote:

I really thought this was going
somewhere. I had high hopes for this thread. I
mean, we were all going to make history, we were
going to be somebody. A
real-life expose of the dirty, underhand
double-dealing of the games rags... putt, putt,
puttered into the
ground.

Read page 12. I'm awaiting
Nick's response. Is there a comeback? It should be
interesting, I mean how can Future or indeed the
magazine industry dispute what is
fact?
_________________
Xbox
Live Gamer Tag: Steve007

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Steve
Moderator

Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts:
7344
Location: Hill Valley circa 1955

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:51
pm    Post
subject:

bm
wrote:

As a related aside, take the
"gone gold" stories with a pinch of salt.
They're PR puff, designed simply to get people
writing about a game closer to the release. In
order to manufacture a significant amount of
copies, a game will be in duplication for a much
longer period of time than was claimed in this
case.

Well as you work for a PR
firm I'll take your word for it
_________________
Xbox
Live Gamer Tag: Steve007

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bm
Starting Member

Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts:
6

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:55
pm    Post
subject:

Steve
wrote:

Well as you work for a PR
firm I'll take your word for it

It's something I've never
done, personally. It amazes me when it's picked up
as "news".

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therockett
Starting Member

Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts:
42

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:11
pm    Post
subject:

nellis
wrote:

Well then. Our review score for
Driv3r seems to have created quite a stir and
with half of you baying for blood and demanding
a response from XBW, I thought I'd brave the
forums. Ulp.

Right, I'll stop
rambling on now. Hope this goes someway to
answering your points. I await responses with
extreme trepidation...

Please note this
post is speaking for XBW and not PSM2.

Nick Ellis
Deputy editor,
XBW

The problem with your
review, ignoring the score for a minute, was the
total lack of any mention of the technical
glitches with the game. If you were to just read
your review, and nothing else, not see any of the
forums, but instead went out and bought the game
based on your review, thinking the game you are
buying is a great game, with great graphics, great
sound etc...well when you got home, started the
game, within five minutes you'd see cars appearing
out of no-where just 200 metres in front of you.

You'd see seemingly twins or triplets walk
past each other without even a hello to each
other. You'd see the police acting like something
out of the keystone cops..You'd go into a
building, shoot a bad guy, and within seconds he
would disappear right in front of your eyes..I
could go on...

Now imagine you do not earn
very much, perhaps just get money from a paper
round, you can only afford one game a month..So
based on your review you go out and buy
Driv3r..Just imagine how gutted you would feel
seeing the game is not what your magazine claimed
it is..

As a magazine, you have a
responsibility to your readers to give them an
accurate opinion of the games you review, you
should mention the game bad points as well as the
good points, give the reader all the information
they require to decide whether to buy a game or
not..In this case, you failed to do your job. I
for one will not be buying your magazine again, at
least until there is a wholesale change in how you
report games, I suspect, a number of other people
will not be buying your magazine again after
this..

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CyberE1ectric
Member

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts:
138

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:11
pm    Post
subject:

It really
wouldn't surprise me if this thread gets a mention
on GamesCentral tomorrow, seeing as how one of the
editors has played a big part already.

I'll be pitching my tent at 1:15 tonight
just in case...

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Spacey
Experienced Member

Joined: 21 Jul 2002
Posts:
957
Location: Wandering About The Loft

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:20
pm    Post
subject:

trelliz
wrote:

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

OXM says "By turns, wondrous, unconventional
and boring, Unique, but slow." Scores 7.6

I disagree. It isn't turn-based (if
that's what they mean), and as for boring that's
a matter of opinion. It takes a while to get
going, but it doesn't start you off whupping ass
straight away, it takes time to build up.

"By turns" means it's
sometimes one thing and then the other. Just
thought I'd let you know.

Great thread.
I'd be right in saying that the vast majority of
gamers think Driv3r is pap, and that those who
reviewed the game and gave it such high scores
are, perhaps, rather off the leading edge in terms
of gaming knowledge? I thought you had to have a
rather solid understanding of what makes a good
and bad game to review it, but from these past
posts, Driv3r seems to be severely lacking in
comparison to other titles of the same ilk.

The only good news is that some major
companies are choosing to pay out license fees to
publishers based on user-score polls from the
likes of Metacritic, which no doubt put the wind
up certain EA and Atari
chiefs.
_________________
Abort!

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:42
pm    Post
subject:

This is far
from finished. Much like the game
itself.
_________________
I came here to
chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm all out of
ass.

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bear
Experienced Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
1159
Location: Ireland

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:01
pm    Post
subject:

Well surely it
has to be a breach of some sort of advertising law
for XBW to pass off their Driv3r story as an
exclusive review as they have already admitted
that it was based on unfinished code and so could
not have been one.
Now imagine this:Womans way
reviews the new face cream from Nivea.Nivea
however has offered womans way "incentives" in
order to obtain a good review of their
product.Review is sent to printers with comments
like"really does reduce wrinkles" and other such
guff in order to excite the magazines
readership.Unfortunately said face cream is in
fact rubbish and causes users to grow an extra
toe.When womans way are confronted about this they
try to weasel out of it by claiming Nivea told
them that it wouldnt do that.
If the above
situation occured womans way would almost
certainly be fined heavily for misleading its
readership deliberatly and maliciously.Why should
future get away with the same sort of
behaviour?

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dodgy_dave
Experienced Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
1779

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:02
pm    Post
subject:

bear
wrote:

Now imagine this:Womans way
reviews the new face cream from Nivea.Nivea
however has offered womans way "incentives" in
order to obtain a good review of their
product.Review is sent to printers with comments
like"really does reduce wrinkles" and other such
guff in order to excite the magazines
readership.Unfortunately said face cream is in
fact rubbish and causes users to grow an extra
toe.When womans way are confronted about this
they try to weasel out of it by claiming Nivea
told them that it wouldnt do that.
If the
above situation occured womans way would almost
certainly be fined heavily for misleading its
readership deliberatly and maliciously.Why
should future get away with the same sort of
behaviour?

Most. Bizarre. Example.
Ever!!
_________________
Gamertag:
SoulSeeker86

http://users.ign.com/collection/heartstopper
- Games
http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=heartstopper
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