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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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Miriam_NGC
Moderator

Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts:
436
Location: NGC's messy office

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:04
pm    Post
subject:

Cal
wrote:

Miriam_NGC
wrote:

In fact, last Christmas a big
games company sent very expensive gifts to a lot
of the reviewers here, and every single on of
them was sent back, in line with company policy
about not taking gifts, noy accepting corporate
hospitality worth over a certain amount and so
on.

Hmmm, except that I know
someone who was working as an Assistant Editor
on one of Future's Carp fishing magazines and
I've seen with my own eyes the small back room
at his home stuffed full
of goodies he was sent by manufacturers getting
reviews, etc, in the magazine. In his own words
he 'hasn't bought any new kit for years'.
Doesn't sit well with Future's 'company policy',
does it?

Given that we don't HAVE a
carp fishing magazine (or indeed any other osrt of
fishing magazine), I'd say you're thinking of
another company entirely.

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Matthew
Member

Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts:
130

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:04
pm    Post
subject:

No it isn't
lying to their readers, KKlein.

They're
NGC, and talking about Mario Kart: DD.

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Miriam_NGC
Moderator

Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts:
436
Location: NGC's messy office

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06
pm    Post
subject:

KKLEIN
wrote:

Miriam_NGC
wrote:

But it's not lying to our
readers.

Reviewing unfinished code
& not telling anyone about it is lying to
your readers. Reviewing Driv3r & not
mentioning any of the games faults is lying to
your readers. XBW & PSM2 lied to its
readers, its as simple as that. Future
Publishing promised honest buying advice. This
wasn't - it was a load of old bollocks.

Read Gamespot. Read IGN. Read Eurogamer.
Everything they bring up is not mentioned, in
any detail, in those magazines.
Why?

I was referring back to the
comment about our Mario Kart review, hence the
fact that I said we weren't lying to our readers.
I can't speak for other magazines, I don't work on
them.

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06
pm    Post
subject:

Matthew
wrote:

No it isn't lying to their
readers, KKlein.

They're NGC, and
talking about Mario Kart:
DD.

I know. Same company though.
Same rules apply to everyone, I would
imagine.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

Last
edited by KKLEIN on Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06 pm;
edited 1 time in
total

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Pug
Fugly
Experienced
Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts:
836
Location: Idiotsville

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06
pm    Post
subject:

Eighthours
wrote:

Anyone who says they didn't have
loads of fun in multiplayer hasn't got very good
mates!

Showing off because you
have friends, eh? Granted, it's quite a rarity
amongst posers on this board....

As for reviewing unfinished code
- does this kind of thing happen
regularly?

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simon71
Member

Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts:
170
Location: London

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:08
pm    Post
subject:

I think that
we're getting slightly off topic by discussing the
various merits of MK:DD.

Driver 3 is
another matter of course.

From the deputy
editor of Xbox World's own evidence on this forum,
I think it would be fair, at the very least, to
lay an accusation of unproffesionalism and naivite
at their door.

But perhaps that's all they
are guilty of?

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Pell
Veteran Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
2689
Location: Modding at The Fun House

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:09
pm    Post
subject:

The whole MK:DD
thing was illustrative purpose by me to show that
it's not right to accuse some people of bribery
when in other instances high scores are given
without anyone complaining. There is a fundamental
flaw in your arguements that mean you fail to see
the bigger picture. You criticise PSM2 and XBW
whilst never even thinking about other instances
with different magazines. Why should this be any
different?
Also back to the glitching. So many
people complain that it is unrealistic. That
bouncing off lamposts and wrecking your car is
stupid. Okay it can be frustrating. But if Driv3r
was going for a realistic apprach then why the
heck do you complain? That's far more likely to
happen in real life (ie mass damage) than scenery
bouncing down the road and you driving away
unscathed ala GTA. Whlie we're at it lets all post
lists of glitches and faults with GTA and compare
shall we? There are LOADS in the Rockstar games,
yet they are hailed as some of the greatest games
of all time. Maybe they don't interfere with the
gameplay as much as Driv3r, but why is it
reasonable to expect reviews not to mention this
fact about GTA yet you want them to hammer Driv3r
for the same thing? The inconsistencies aren't in
the reviews, but in your
expectations.
_________________
And now...
Witness the destructive power of these armed and
fully operational gaming leagues!
The
Ultimate Gaming Quiz: Round
2

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:11
pm    Post
subject:

Miriam,

I'd point you to my post on page fifteen.
Whether or not you like MKDD is subjective. A lot
of people did. Some people didn't. For many
varying reasons. None of those reasons were sloppy
game-destroying pop up, glitchy flying karts,
poorly executed on foot sections (making up a
whopping quarter of the game) or bad AI.

Driver3 is an unfinished mess. The fact
that it scored a 9 in XBW stinks to high heaven.
The fact they reviewed an unfinished game on the
promise of it being fixed for release is
inexcusable.
_________________
I came here
to chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm all out of
ass.

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Nintendomadlad
Experienced Member

Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts:
1011

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:12
pm    Post
subject:

But Edge's
Review was a one off compared to all the other
Reviews i read.

And come on it's Nintendo
- Has their game making ever come to question.

Don't
mention Doshin Don't mention
Doshin
_________________
Less
spilling - more killing!

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Pell
Veteran Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
2689
Location: Modding at The Fun House

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:13
pm    Post
subject:

My point may
have been misunderstood. I have no problem with
anymag. NGC is by far my favourite and I believe
it 100%. I wasn't saying that anything was dodgy,
but the fact if you accuse PSM2 and XBW of things
then why do you not accuse others. That is the
point I was making.
Almost every mag at some
point boasts exclusive reviews. If these happen to
be high scores does this mean money was exchanged?
I would say no.
_________________
And now...
Witness the destructive power of these armed and
fully operational gaming leagues!
The
Ultimate Gaming Quiz: Round
2

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:15
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

The whole MK:DD thing was
illustrative purpose by me to show that it's not
right to accuse some people of bribery when in
other instances high scores are given without
anyone complaining. There is a fundamental flaw
in your arguements that mean you fail to see the
bigger picture. You criticise PSM2 and XBW
whilst never even thinking about other instances
with different magazines. Why should this be any
different?
Also back to the glitching. So
many people complain that it is unrealistic.
That bouncing off lamposts and wrecking your car
is stupid. Okay it can be frustrating. But if
Driv3r was going for a realistic apprach then
why the heck do you complain? That's far more
likely to happen in real life (ie mass damage)
than scenery bouncing down the road and you
driving away unscathed ala GTA. Whlie we're at
it lets all post lists of glitches and faults
with GTA and compare shall we? There are LOADS
in the Rockstar games, yet they are hailed as
some of the greatest games of all time. Maybe
they don't interfere with the gameplay as much
as Driv3r, but why is it reasonable to expect
reviews not to mention this fact about GTA yet
you want them to hammer Driv3r for the same
thing? The inconsistencies aren't in the
reviews, but in your
expectations.

Okay let's do a list:

The Getaway - OPS2
Tomb Raider - OPS2

Enter The Matrix (half finished I might add) -
PSM2
Turok - EDGE
Medal of Honor Rising
Sun - OPS2
Terminator (Atari again) - OXM

We could be doing this for days, but
seeing as this is about Driv3r there's not much
point. Hell lets just go all the way & bring
up everything, I bet Future couldn't answer half
of it.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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Pell
Veteran Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
2689
Location: Modding at The Fun House

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:19
pm    Post
subject:

So after these
discrepencies (in some peoples view) why on earth
is everybody suddenly making accusations about
Driv3r corruptions? There was nothing like this
about any others.
_________________
And
now... Witness the destructive power of these
armed and fully operational gaming leagues!
The
Ultimate Gaming Quiz: Round
2

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:20
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

So after these discrepencies (in
some peoples view) why on earth is everybody
suddenly making accusations about Driv3r
corruptions? There was nothing like this about
any others.

Well now we do. We have a 17+
page topic about the dishonesty of Future's
publications, how's
that?
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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Pug
Fugly
Experienced
Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts:
836
Location: Idiotsville

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:23
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

So after these discrepencies (in
some peoples view) why on earth is everybody
suddenly making accusations about Driv3r
corruptions? There was nothing like this about
any others.

I guess it must be down to
the 'bugs'. Technical issues.

I'm quite
happy to accept that technical issues can be
overlooked if they don't ruin the game. In the
case of Driv3r, some people say they do, some say
they don't. The opinions I can gather are those of
people on forums, who almost always have alterior
motives and bias.

I guess if a game is
technically perfect it's easy to argue that scores
are opinions. However, if it's a dog it's a little
more difficult justifying the scores...

I'm looking forward to playing the game
myself. Forget about hype and internet hardcore
gamer keyboard warriors, and see what it's
actually like....

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Poet
Starting Member

Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts:
21

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:29
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

So after these discrepencies (in
some peoples view) why on earth is everybody
suddenly making accusations about Driv3r
corruptions? There was nothing like this about
any others.

Adding £5 onto the RRP of the
game compared to the norm and attempting to
deceive people into buying it with initial reviews
giving high scores, coupled with an absolutely
enormous marketing spend on (what many believe is)
an unfinished game is not what I would deem to be
a good thing.

Aside from the money, there
is nothing new here but that doesn't mean it's
okay because it's been done before. On the other
hand, this is certainly one of the more visible
attempts at such behaviour. Adding the £5 onto the
RRP (whether or not they're getting away with it
at retail is pretty much immaterial - they did
their best to do so) is, to my mind, adding
serious insult to injury.

A
shambles.
_________________
What? No more
pretentious sigs? Oh okay
then.

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