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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:26
pm    Post
subject:

Do you realise
there are people who
don't?
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banjo_ted
New Member

Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts:
63
Location: Getting a tan on Bowser Course
1

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:27
pm    Post
subject:

Quote:

banjo_ted wrote:
Do you
realise how insulting the 9/10 score for Driv3r
was for people who've bought the magazine,
bought what they thought would be an excellent
game and have subsequently been disgusted?

*Slams head on desk*.
Do you
realise that there are people who enjoy
DRIV3R?!

Come on, we're not back to
that again surely? I'm sure there are people out
there who will enjoy it, but are you honestly
claiming that you don't expect the vast majority
of people who buy it on the strength of the 9/10
review to be highly disappointed?

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:34
pm    Post
subject:

tnman
wrote:

*Slams head on desk*.
Do you
realise that there are people who enjoy
DRIV3R?!

Have you read this topic
properly? Have you read other forums? Have you
read other reviews? The game sucks & 90% (I
did that on purpose by the way) seem to be totally
disappointed with it. The game, however you, &
Future try & hide it, is a
mess.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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SillySprout
Moderator

Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts:
6329
Location: Xbox Live & PS2 Online:
SillySprout

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:47
pm    Post
subject:

Some people seem to be using
the "it's just an opinion" line a bit too freely.
Opinions from professional game journalists simply
can't vary as much as they have in this instance.
How can a game get "Editors Choice" from one
source, and slatered as "completely unplayable" by
another? Seriously!

Take a look at Game
Rankings page for Driv3r, there are
currenly only 3 reviews on there with a score
above 70%. Each of them are taken directly from
Magazines, in the same manner that Gamesradars
review was taken from PSM2, so you could easily
assume all of them had copies of the game prior to
it's general release, unlike the half dozen or so
who reviewed it in the 65% - 30% range.
Coinsidence I guess?

When the reviews
start flooding in, this topic will have much more
potential, but in the meantime there a lot to
indicate that certain "professional" opinions are
absolutely worthless, regardless of what lead up
to the basis of those opinions. As somebody who
enjoys what is already an expensive hobby, that
worrys me.
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outrageous vegetable!
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>FunHouse Forum [pink
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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:56
pm    Post
subject:

Pull yourself
together. Remember. You are an
outrageous vegetable
_________________
I came here to
chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm all out of
ass.

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SillySprout
Moderator

Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts:
6329
Location: Xbox Live & PS2 Online:
SillySprout

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:16
pm    Post
subject:

And you're a.... pussy.
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outrageous vegetable!
>The Funhouse<
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Tyler
Durden
Starting
Member

Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts:
1

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:15
pm    Post
subject: Driv3r

You've got to
love Eurogamers sense of humour, sticking this
link at the end of that review :-

Order yours now from Simply
Games.

I just might get Driv3r from
GAME and see what all the fuss is about (Isn't
GAMEs 10 day no quibble return policy great )

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simon71
Member

Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts:
170
Location: London

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:13
pm    Post
subject:

ontwofronts
wrote:

Flawed and untrustworthy
review policy - Yes

On the evidence presented
to this thread by Xbox World themselves,
absolutely.

ontwofronts
wrote:

Corruption and bribery at
play - Unknown

Correct also.

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spittleandbrain
Starting Member

Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts:
1

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:21
pm    Post
subject:

A couple of
things I'd like to go into here - namely magazines
reviewing unfinished code and publishers releasing
buggy games:

Regarding magazines getting
unfinished code to review - this is standard
practice for most publishers.
The 'Review'
code will typically be two to four weeks earlier
than the 'Gold' code. As mentioned previously this
is down to lead-times for magazines and whether
the marketing department wants the review out the
month before the game release or month of release.

Games will go to reviewers with a list of
known issues, i.e. a list of bugs in the current
code. They will naturally be told that these will
be fixed for the final version of the code and are
to be ignored for the purposes of the review.

Now this isn't being underhand on the part
of the publisher (or at least the one I work for,
can't vouch for others). The bugs mentioned are always
endeavoured to be fixed for release. No-one wants to release
a buggy game. However there are often constraints
from 'above' on the release of the game. Typically
end of financial year/quarter stuff. And if these
people 'above' say the game goes, bugs are waived
and it goes. Reality. That's how it works.

Doesn't mean that everyone working for the
publisher or developer is happy about it but then
they don't get paid to have to make those kinds of
decisions. Shrug and carry on, it's business.

Now some reviews do mention that
they are looking at unfinished code and some
don't. Some magazines say they only review
finished code and indeed their reviews are often a
month or two after the game has been released.

I guess it's an editorial decision whether or
not to tell the reader if the version of the game
under review is final retail code or not.

Personally I would like to see it adopted
as standard practice that magazines state as part
of the review or in an info box whether or not the
code they are reviewing is the final retail
version. But then again even if they did I doubt
the casual gamer would truly understand what
difference it made to the review.

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jeebus
Member

Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Posts:
119
Location: Miracle World

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:40
pm    Post
subject:

Great topic
this. Very enjoyable read.
I wasn't even
interested in Driver 3 at all, I haven't played
any of the previous installments, it seemed like
just another gta wannabe to me... But after
reading all this I must say I'm intrigued. I might
give it a rent to see what all the fuss is about.

Anyway, about the "reviews are all
subjective anyway" thing, I think Big_Damn_Hero
already said it best:

Big_Damn_Hero
wrote:

nellis
wrote:

At the end of the day, Bob, much
of this is surely down to personal opinion and
taste.

This. Right Here.

This is the problem with games reviewing
today. Allows you cheating weasels to slime your
way out of anything. This sentence is equivalent
to saying "Well, the existence of our mag is
pretty f*ck*ng pointless really." Doesn’t it?

On one hand you’re going “buy the mag!
It will help you make the right choice! We are
the vanguard of taste, we know our stuff!” and
on the other you’re going, quietly “But you
might have to discount everything we say as it’s
all just subjective really ain’t it?”

It
is your job to seperate the good games from the
bad ones. This isn't music, this isn't film.
Opinion matters less than in other forms of
media. I like The Mars Volta - they have
produced one of the greatest albums I have ever
heard. Maybe you hate them (probably) but like
Suede instead – whereas I think they are shite.
Music is just taste. Whereas, games can JUST BE
CRAP. I pride myself on being able to tell good
games from bad ones whether I like them or not.
A good reviewer should know the damn difference.
You’re in the wrong career. Get a job in
politics.

For example, Metroid Prime.
I've only ever played this game for a few hours, I
just can't seem to get "into" it. But, if I worked
for a games mag and I had to review this game, I'd
give it 80% at least. And very probably more than
that, because if I had to review it, I'd obviously
play it more than a few hours, I'd do my best to
finish it, and it would probably grow on me after
a while. God knows what wondrous sights I'm
missing at the moment...
Anyway, my point is,
while the sci-fi setting might not do much for me,
and the game doesn't "grab" me, so to speak, it is
still very obvious that this game was designed
with a great deal of skill and care. It is quite
obvious from the moment you look at the title
screen, in fact, and even more so when you
actually start playing.

It would seem that
this is not the case with Driver 3. It would seem
that this game could have used another couple of
months worth of development time, but it was
rushed by the publisher (again), and now it's a
buggy mess of a game (again).
Then again, I
haven't actually played the game, so I might be
talking utter sh*t, who knows...

Another
good example of personal opinions not mattering
when reviewing games would be Pro Evo. I couldn't
care less about football, me, but when I see my
mates playing this, and when I have the odd go
myself, it's again rather obvious that this is one
of the best football games ever conceived. The
flow of a Pro Evo match is a lot more "realistic"
(I really dislike using this word to describe
videogames btw...) than other football games, even
I can see that.

So what I'm trying to say
is personal opinion/preference should not matter
when reviewing a game. The difference between a
great game and an average/awful one is always
obvious, whether you like the genre or the design
style or whatever of the game or
not.
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the one and
only
Veteran
Member

Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts:
5656
Location: The Millenium Dome

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:53
pm    Post
subject:

tnman
wrote:

banjo_ted
wrote:

Do you realise how insulting the
9/10 score for Driv3r was for people who've
bought the magazine, bought what they thought
would be an excellent game and have subsequently
been disgusted?

*Slams head on desk*.

Do you realise that there are people who
enjoy
DRIV3R?!

Do you realise there are
people that think it's f*cking sh*t? 9/10 sh*t.

Many people, in fact. Like, say, reputable
review
sources.
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you, boo!
...oh, wrong box.
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gamertag: Extreme Ironing

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:59
pm    Post
subject:

Where's Nick
'Harry Potter' Ellis? He promises he'd come back
on here & guess what? He doesn't. Someone has
said something to him obviously.

I wish
everyone that works for Future would come on here,
in fact any forum for that matter, stick their
jobs & reveal what exactly does go on in that
building because it's now just becoming a total
embarrassment. What are Future going to do, fire
everyone?

If magazines weren't a total
laughing stock before they certainly are
now.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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Sprite
Machine
Starting
Member

Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts:
8
Location: London

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:30
am    Post
subject:

tnman
wrote:

Do you realise that there are
people who enjoy
DRIV3R?!

->Indeed.<-
It's still a bit sh*t, though.

Actually I'm wondering whether
Gamecentral's and Eurogamer's 3/10s were both the
result of retaliation against Atari and a big fat
message to the guilty parties out there, more than
it was about their honest view of the game... to
tip the scales, so to speak. Not that I'd blame
them - they bloody deserve it!

jeebus
wrote:

Another good example of personal
opinions not mattering when reviewing games
would be Pro Evo
....
it's again rather
obvious that this is one of the best football
games ever
conceived.

You do realise the
inherent contradiction there, dontcha?

Don't
confuse unprofessional appraisal with
'having-an-opinion'. Is Pro Evo the "best
footie game around"? Most would agree, some would
not. No-one's right or wrong about it,
though.

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jeebus
Member

Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Posts:
119
Location: Miracle World

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:52
am    Post
subject:

Sprite Machine
wrote:

jeebus
wrote:

Another good example of personal
opinions not mattering when reviewing games
would be Pro Evo
....
it's again rather
obvious that this is one of the best football
games ever
conceived.

You do realise the
inherent contradiction there, dontcha?

Don't
confuse unprofessional appraisal with
'having-an-opinion'. Is Pro Evo the "best
footie game around"? Most would agree, some
would not. No-one's right or wrong about it,
though.

Er... no I do not. Care to
explain that inherent contradiction a bit then?

I didn't say it was the best
football game around, I said one of.
I
was just saying how, despite the fact I don't care
about football, it is still obvious that Pro Evo
is an exceptionally well designed game...

Which is why I think personal taste should
not come into play when reviewing games. Or at
least it should not be used to justify giving 90%
scores to games that are incomplete.

Um,
see?
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GamesMan
Experienced Member

Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts:
1144
Location: The secret society of your friends
that actually hate you.

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:25
am    Post
subject:

jeebus
wrote:

It would seem that this game
could have used another couple of months worth
of development time

It
could have used another year.

It's
fun going through the game and finding all sorts
of crap wrong with
it.
_________________

XBOXgamerUK (Cyburn)
wrote:

Johnny STOP F8*Kin replying sh*t
in my topics.

GOD Cant I have ONE topic
which Johhny Bosanova,GamesMan or others Dont
f**k up

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