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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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DIN0
Veteran Member

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts:
4487
Location: Beside the seaside, beside the
sea.

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:42
pm    Post
subject:

to think some of you
actually trusted journalists!
they'd sell
their grannies for an exclusive!!!

i've been buying games magazines for
around 16 years.
in that time i've read many
review scores that i not only disagree with but
feel sure that so did the person that awarded the
mark. almost always in the game's favour, i
probably didn't need to add.
being of an open
mind i understand why those things need to happen.

i'm not saying that it is right, i'm not
saying that at all.
i imagine that games
journo's take some comfort in the knowledge that
'little jimmy' is the ultimate judge of what he
likes and he has a ten day return policy at his
full disposal....so, no real harm done.

what's of more interest to me is when the
proper
mags like edge and games tm get it wrong.

pillars of the gaming press, their 'out of
tens' are widely taken as gospel.
they are
trading off of their intelligent approach and
dogmatic integrity.
something which eighthours
prides himself on pointing out (rightly so imo) is
the way some games seem to be scored to
deliberately insight controversy and/or to give
one of the magazines a seemingly more honest
outlook.
i'm of course referring to games tm
consistant low scores of otherwise universally
highly rated games.
the thing is, from a
certain point of view you can agree with almost
any given score.
with the right mindset it
wouldn't be hard to see why edge gave mario kart
dd a 5. not that i would have. a 7 sounds more on
the mark.
the two games that both (arguably)
got over-marked by these bastions are:

halo - edge 10/10
metroid prime -
games tm 10/10

i am a massive fan of halo,
but even i see that 10/10 as being a bit over the
top.
from oxm or similar it would have been
fine and justifiable. but from edge? it should
have been a 9, surely?

i have just started
playing metroid prime.
i am slowly falling in
love with samus and her pretty cannon, but full
set of curves or not, she's no perfect 10 (don't
tell her i said that!)

i suppose that the
review scores (imo) are only at worse 2 marks away
from the truth, and more likely just the 1, but i
think it highlights that there is no definitive
games bible out there.
they all have their own
agendas and their staff are guilty of having
opinions.
whilst on the subject of edge i'd
like to express my disapproval at their 5 is
average mantra.
it isn't. 7 is like everyone
elses.

what is far less open for debate is
the high driv3r scores.
i have played it and
unsurprisingly don't think it's a 9.
turn that
digit on it's head and you'd have it nailed.
a
3 does seem a little low for a game that aspires
to so much and from what little i've seen, at
least pulls some of it off.

i have taken
the time to re-read the xboxworld review.

alongside the main review are a couple of 2nd
& 3rd opinion boxes from other xbw staffers.

jem roberts seems to have the biggest heart
(and a very friendly face!) and points out that
the game does suffer some flaws (no mention to
bugs, however) and admits that it is a 2nd rate
experince when compared to vice-city.
his
reviews are surely to be the most regarded by
readers of both the mag and forum from now on!

go jem!

xbox world's deputy editor did
offer an explanation as to why no bugs were
mentioned.
and eighthours, the mag doesn't
mention anything about not reviewing from
unfinished code, so you're out of luck there my
friend!
nick ellis deserves some respect for
braving the forum.
he didn't really have much
choice, as he joined a few days ago to contribute
to a xbox world topic. not coming here would have
looked bad, he did the right thing.
i also
understand why he has not been back.
he left
us saying that he would take the full version of
driv3r home and subject it to further scrutiny.

he must have seen that the game still had some
glaring flaws.
i wouldn't fancy coming back
here much if i were him!
i can practically
hear eighthours demanding a full apology and
requesting that he publish a new score and sue
atari for their lies!!!
he can't do that,
wants to keep his job and carry on with his
mortgage repayments.
give the guy a break.

he didn't write the review and is not the
editor.
deputy-editor is a title given to
someone to get them to do things that the editor
doesn't want to do.
i.e. dealing with this
fine mess!

kkein, you are aware that joao
diniz-sanchez is still listed as an edge
contributor?
would seem a bit odd, considering
the content you said you read in that interview.

not that i know to what extent he contributes
or why his name is on the list.
but still,
interesting stuff, eh?

my opinion of the
gaming press is the same as ever.
take the
scores with a pinch of salt and read between the
lines.
think of them as more of a game's cv
compilation and less an impartial source for
reviews!
if it's truth you want, just stick to
places like this.
gamesradar, where truth
happens in real time. ip of future publishing...

finaly, though this topic was conceived by
steve, i think eighthours has done a most
excellent job of nurturing one of the best damn
threads i've ever had the pleasure to read.

good work man!

anyone
seen
nellis?
_________________
Gamertag -
DIN0

Last
edited by DIN0 on Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:11 pm; edited
1 time in total

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DIN0
Veteran Member

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts:
4487
Location: Beside the seaside, beside the
sea.

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:48
pm    Post
subject:

phAnt0m buRn
wrote:

I'd actually like to inform you
of something else I discovered in XBW that is
directly related to 'Driv3rgate' (Cool name,
eh?). Having read the Galleon review, it is no
better than the Driv3r one. Not one single bad
point was explained. Strange, isn't it?

PS. I don't work for anyone but some old
t*** in a paper shop, delivering papers.

Get's me out of the conspiracy.

oh come on.
they did
say the graphics were
dated!
_________________
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DIN0

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6606
Location: Certainty

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:51
pm    Post
subject:

DIN0
wrote:

finaly, though this topic was
conceived by steve, i think eighthours has done
a most excellent job of nurturing one of the
best damn threads i've ever had the pleasure to
read.
good work
man!

Thanks Din0, the brown
envelope's buried under the third tree from the
left when you walk out of your house.......
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
live

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GwiDan
Veteran Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts:
5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:52
pm    Post
subject:

I've received a
reply from the Chief Executive of the Future
Network, and while I'm not allowed to post the
email, I'll give you the general gist of the
content. Basically, Greg Ingham has forwarded my
email to the Publishing Director in charge of
their games group who will reply next week.

They're taking the situation seriously as
they're a company that focuses on readers' needs
and has a responsibility to them - which
sometimes causes problems with advertisers and has
lost them financial support over the years. He
understands why reliable reviews are of the utmost
importance, and having started his own
journalistic career in gaming, realises why this
is especially true with video games, which are
often sold to children.

Very interesting.
This is now at the highest level of the company,
so we might get something done instead of empty
talk.

Kudos to Greg Ingham, too - he
replied to my email thoroughly within a couple of
hours, which I appreciate.

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:55
pm    Post
subject:

DIN0
wrote:

kkein, you are aware that joao
diniz-sanchez is still listed as an edge
contributor?
would seem a bit odd,
considering the content you said you read in
that interview.
not that i know to what
extent he contributes or why his name is on the
list.
but still, interesting stuff,
eh?

No I didn't - all it's done now
is make me even more determined to find that
blasted interview.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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phAnt0m
buRn
Experienced
Member

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts:
1835
Location: Dunno

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56
pm    Post
subject:

Quoting Din0

I do agree with that. This has to be one
of the best topics ever to grace this forum, and
for that we should be thankful. Steve and
Eighthours especially have kept this topic from
going down the off-topic drain.

I also
agree that Driv3r is more deserving of a 6 or
maybe 7 too.

What I don't understand is
how mags like GamesTM and Edge say 5 is an average
score, when most games get a 7. Seven would
therefore be the average score.

As for
nellis, I doubt he'll come back. But I don't blame
him. At least he had the decency to come onto
Gamesradar and explain. He should be respected for
that, whereas the PSM2 folk are cowardly.

When I read reviews I almost always read
more than one review. Having read from different
sources I can then work out for myself if a game
is worth buying.
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phAnt0m
buRn
Experienced
Member

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts:
1835
Location: Dunno

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:57
pm    Post
subject:

DIN0
wrote:

phAnt0m buRn
wrote:

I'd actually like to inform you
of something else I discovered in XBW that is
directly related to 'Driv3rgate' (Cool name,
eh?). Having read the Galleon review, it is no
better than the Driv3r one. Not one single bad
point was explained. Strange, isn't it?

PS. I don't work for anyone but some old
t*** in a paper shop, delivering papers.

Get's me out of the conspiracy.

oh come on.
they did
say the graphics were
dated!

In the main body of the
review there was no negativity at all. You can't
say that a tiny little box with 3 bad points
changes the perspective of a
review.
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game.

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Egregious
Willy
New
Member

Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts:
50

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:58
pm    Post
subject:

Who exactly are
you all so concerned about; whose well-being are
you trying to protect here? You can't be too
worried about being hoodwinked by spurious reviews
yourselves - you're far too sophisticated, you're
here in a games forum after all and you know what
real people, rather than 'easily persuadable'
reviewers, think. Personally, I'm not too fussed
about protecting those who can't be bothered to
get a second opinion (at least, not when all
they're required to be saved from is buying a
sub-standard game.).

Do we actually know
of any one single person who bought the game
purely on the basis of one of these reviews and
was subsequently desperately disappointed?
Anyone…?

Having played Driver 3 for a
couple of hours, I'd say the PSM2 review was
accurate enough. The score, on the other hand, was
maybe a notch or two too generous (which was
readily apparent from reading the review anyway).
So my only hope from this debacle (if it actually
qualifies as one) is that it encourages people to
actually read reviews rather than look at a score
and then infer everything from a single number.

Bottom line for me: Is the game enjoyable?
Yes, definitely. Is it worth 9/10? No, perhaps
not. Is there corruption in the magazine world?
Yes, same as there is everywhere. Can we do
anything to avoid being a victim of it? Absolutely
yes; easily.

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John
Square
Experienced
Member

Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts:
376

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:59
pm    Post
subject:

*looks for the
"round of applause" smiley*

*Remembers its
on UF*

We'll done GwiDan and the head
honchos at Future.

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:59
pm    Post
subject:

GwiDan
wrote:

Kudos to Greg Ingham, too - he
replied to my email thoroughly within a couple
of hours, which I
appreciate.

Good man. It's nice to know
that the guy at the head of the company personally
replies to emails instead of, like many other
companies, getting his lackeys to do
it.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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DIN0
Veteran Member

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts:
4487
Location: Beside the seaside, beside the
sea.

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:00
pm    Post
subject:

GwiDan
wrote:

I've received a reply from the
Chief Executive of the Future Network, and while
I'm not allowed to post the email, I'll give you
the general gist of the content. Basically, Greg
Ingham has forwarded my email to the Publishing
Director in charge of their games group who will
reply next week.

They're taking the
situation seriously as they're a company that
focuses on readers' needs and has a
responsibility to them - which
sometimes causes problems with advertisers and
has lost them financial support over the years.
He understands why reliable reviews are of the
utmost importance, and having started his own
journalistic career in gaming, realises why this
is especially true with video games, which are
often sold to children.

Very
interesting. This is now at the highest level of
the company, so we might get something done
instead of empty talk.

Kudos to Greg
Ingham, too - he replied to my email thoroughly
within a couple of hours, which I
appreciate.

that is very cool.
i
wonder just how far reaching all this is gonna be?

one things for sure; it's gonna be damn
interesting following it all the way!

all
sorted eighthours, why's there only
half?
_________________
Gamertag -
DIN0

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phAnt0m
buRn
Experienced
Member

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts:
1835
Location: Dunno

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:03
pm    Post
subject:

Egregious Willy
wrote:

What Egregious Willy
said

I bought the game after I
saw it in Gamestation, having not read the review.
Therefore I had less to expect of the game but I
still thought it was crap.

The point is
though, as has been expressed umpteen times
already, that XBW and PSM2 wrote clearly dishonest
reviews. People do not want to go and buy a
magazine to be spoon fed bullshit, which is what
XBW and PSM2 have done. Take XBW's review for
example. It was basically 4 pages of arse
kissing.
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Join the Unnamed Forums!
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ready for some MP DoomIIage if anyone wants a
game.

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Sprite
Machine
Starting
Member

Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts:
8
Location: London

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:05
pm    Post
subject:

phAnt0m buRn
wrote:

What I don't understand is how
mags like GamesTM and Edge say 5 is an average
score, when most games get a 7. Seven would
therefore be the average
score.

They.... don't... mean the.... modal average!!!
Crikey!

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John
Square
Experienced
Member

Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts:
376

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:06
pm    Post
subject:

Eighthours
wrote:

GwiDan
wrote:

Which forum was the Microsoft
bloke on?

rllmuk

Eighthours, can you give us
a link to the active Driv3r thread over there- I
cannae find it....

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Sprite
Machine
Starting
Member

Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts:
8
Location: London

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:08
pm    Post
subject:

John Square
wrote:

..can you give us a link to the
active Driv3r thread over there- I cannae find
it....

It'd be the end of this one, I
think:
http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=39543

(No new posts for a while though)

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