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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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Egregious
Willy
New
Member

Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts:
50

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:20
pm    Post
subject:

phAnt0m buRn
wrote:

Egregious Willy
wrote:

What Egregious Willy
said

I bought the game after I
saw it in Gamestation, having not read the
review. Therefore I had less to expect of the
game but I still thought it was crap.

The point is though, as has been
expressed umpteen times already, that XBW and
PSM2 wrote clearly dishonest reviews. People do
not want to go and buy a magazine to be spoon
fed bullshit, which is what XBW and PSM2 have
done. Take XBW's review for example. It was
basically 4 pages of arse
kissing.

Yes, but my point is, who
are all these poor saps who've wasted their
hard-earned cash because of these "bullshit"
reviews? Hands up anyone, please, who bought the
game based on one of these reviews (i.e. anyone
who wouldn't have otherwise bought it) and was
then thoroughly pissed off.

This is like
the pro-censorship argument ("Well I don't need
films to be censored, but there are other poor
fools out there who do"). Simply, where are all
the victims here? Where are all of your poor
fools? Whisper it, but no one's been ripped off;
no one cares. More to the point, I like the damn
game!

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SillySprout
Moderator

Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts:
6329
Location: Xbox Live & PS2 Online:
SillySprout

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:32
pm    Post
subject:

I think the thing to be
learnt from this episode is that whilst most of us
here admit to suspecting boosted scores for early
reviews in the past, when it's as obvious as it is
in this case, the respect for the magazines will
be damaged, and sales will be damaged likewise.
Tarting a review up to keep in a publishers good
books (as wrong as that is), will get past the
majority un-noticed, but outright lying, or
pleading ignorance regarding issues that at least
75% of gamers are crying out about simply isn't
on, and will backfire.

I imagine that the
next time I walk into a newsagent and see the
words "worlds first review" splashed on the cover
of a magazine, it will actually have an adverse
effect on me. As it is, the only magazine I buy is
PS2 Official Magazine UK on subscription (&
occasionally NGC Mag if there are games coming out
for Cube), but I tell you what, if PS2OM comes
through my door in a few weeks with another 9/10
Driv3r review, I definately wont be renewing my
soon-to-expire subscription. But how can they
possibly slate it without drawing more attention
to PSM2 & XBW? If the writers of Official PS2
Magazine want to score the game 5/10, as seems to
be the average score of the game on gaming
websites, will they dare to do so knowing that it
will draw attention to their sister magazine's
dubvious review, and cause further damage to
Futures image?

Quote:

There's no denying that, at
present, the game is very glitchy and you do
feel like it's fighting against you at times.
And while Reflections admit that the game's
out-of-car aspects aren't properly tweaked yet,
there's still clearly lots more left to do than
just that. But there is scope for this to be a
cracking chase-based speed-fest, replete with
realistic locations, a huge array of vehicles
and - fingers crossed - some finely crafted
missions. Let's just hope that, come Driv3r's
summer release, it'll be a case of realised
potential as opposed to
what-could-have-been.

That comes from an article on
this very site, fetchingly titled "Driv3r: Vice
City-beater or bug-ridden glitch-fest?" (>link<). Yup, that's
right, "bug-ridden glitch-fest"! You can't publish
an article like that in February, and expect
readers to understand that the very same problems
are overlooked come June, without losing trust.

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6606
Location: Certainty

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:36
pm    Post
subject:

DIN0
wrote:

all
sorted eighthours, why's there only
half?

You
get the other half once my novel starts getting
serialised on Gamufi, and you run a review of it
which starts with the words, "10 thrill-drenched
pages on the book of the year" and which gives it
at least 90%....
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Jonny_Darko
Member

Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts:
124

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:36
pm    Post
subject:

I don't think
tarting up will ever go away, but this isn't a
tart up. I don't think anyone would mind if Driv3r
was a 7 and got boosted to an 8. Or an 8 to a 9.
It's still a good game in that case. The problem
here is that it's a game clearly in the 5
range.

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Cal
Experienced Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts:
1324

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:38
pm    Post
subject:

SillySprout
wrote:

I imagine that the next time I
walk into a newsagent and see the words "worlds
first review" splashed on the cover of a
magazine, it will actually have an adverse
effect on me.

Well, since just about
every games rag (except the venerable Edge) seems
to have that 'exclusive first review!' banner on
the cover (sometimes even for the same game as the
magazine next to it making the same boast - duh) I
guess you won't be getting any new mags for a
while. It's all brought about, ultimately, by the
internicine war of the magazine stands. It's a
brutal marketplace for magazines and shelf-space
is highly-contested and hard won.

Get
Edge, Games TM and PC Gamer and never believe what
you read in any of them, although these magazines
make some attempt to retain some integrity in
their reportagé. The rest you can safely ignore.
Sh*te, the lot of 'em.

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pieman
Starting Member

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts:
6

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:39
pm    Post
subject:

Great topic,
one of the best I have read on a gaming forum and
amazingly it's kept ontopic for most of it. (that
might be down to some good admin skills as I have
only just read the topic, at one point I was
worried I wouldn't finish it all as it was growing
faster than I could read it)

As to the
acusations of bribary and corruption. I don't
think enough distinction has been made between the
various levels in a magazine, there is a
difference between the reviewer recieving a brown
envelope full of cash (which I don't think has
happened) to the magazine at a very high level
being promised some of a major advertising budget.
Perhaps a count up of the number of adds for atari
titles both magazines with good and bad reviews
could shed some more light on that....

anyway keep up the intesting
posts

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6606
Location: Certainty

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:50
pm    Post
subject:

SillySprout
wrote:

I
tell you what, if PS2OM comes through my door in
a few weeks with another 9/10 Driv3r review, I
definately wont be renewing my soon-to-expire
subscription. But how can they possibly slate it
without drawing more attention to PSM2 &
XBW? If the writers of Official PS2 Magazine
want to score the game 5/10, as seems to be the
average score of the game on gaming websites,
will they dare to do so knowing that it will
draw attention to their sister magazine's
dubvious review, and cause further damage to
Futures image?

Read my mind, Sprouty. I am
incredibly interested to see what OPS2M give the
game. There must be some pressure being exerted
here: 1. To give a balanced review, particularly
as they seemed so pissed off in the present ish
that they weren't "allowed" to review the game,
and 2. Pressure from upstairs to give the game an
inflated review, so their sister mag doesn't look
so stupid.

'Twill be a very very
interesting read next month!! Watch for whether
the text and the score both indicate the same
thing!!

pieman
wrote:

Great topic, one of the best I
have read on a gaming forum and amazingly it's
kept ontopic for most of it. (that might be down
to some good admin skills as I have only just
read the topic, at one point I was worried I
wouldn't finish it all as it was growing faster
than I could read it)

Hi there pieman, hope you
stick around. This topic hasn't required any
editing at all. Everyone's kept on-topic
incredibly well, and nearly all forumites have
made superb contributions to the thread. I think
it just proves that, when you come up with an
interesting and thought-provoking topic to do with
a subject that's very close to the forum's
"heart", you're going to get a very lively and
informative debate.
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
live

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:54
pm    Post
subject:

I've just been
out & picked up Xbox World (£4.99! They're
taking the piss...) & just now read the
'review'. The main review itself wasn't actually
written by Nellis, it was by Pete Webber (staff
writer). Through all of the 6 pages not once was
the bad AI mentioned. Not once was any sort of
pop-up mentioned & not once was anything bad
said about the game. The worst they could come up
with? Just read this:

Quote:

Of course there are a few
gripes. For one, shouldn't there be more
traffic? Considering how incredibly hard you
are, the police could also benefit for a little
extra beef? Where's the helicopter support?
Where's the blood? What about the filthy
language, for f*ck sake (not censored in review
- quite frankly that's out of order
imo)?

This review is so full of sh*t
the guy who wrote it deserves the sack. This isn't
opinion; this is just plain ignoring the facts.
I've never read such a warped review in all my
life - and that's no overstatement either.

And guess what? There's a £5 voucher for
the game inside the mag too.
Tossers.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6606
Location: Certainty

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:00
pm    Post
subject:

KKLEIN
wrote:

And guess what? There's a £5
voucher for the game inside the mag too.
Tossers.

Ha ha!!

This gets better and better!! No
mention of the AI either??!! I'm sorry to say
this, but this is sounding more and more like a
total joke. I fully believe that Future didn't
take any money for the review or anything, but it
looks more and more dodgy the more that we hear.

There is another "explain it all away"
possibility that I've just thought of - "Nellis"
mentioned that the writer of the review had only
worked on the mag for a couple of months. Maybe
because it was his first big review, he got all
over-enthusiastic!! (then again, that's what
editors are there to prevent,
surely.....)
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:08
pm    Post
subject:

SillySprout
wrote:

but I
tell you what, if PS2OM comes through my door in
a few weeks with another 9/10 Driv3r review, I
definately wont be renewing my soon-to-expire
subscription. But how can they possibly slate it
without drawing more attention to PSM2 &
XBW? If the writers of Official PS2 Magazine
want to score the game 5/10, as seems to be the
average score of the game on gaming websites,
will they dare to do so knowing that it will
draw attention to their sister magazine's
dubvious review, and cause further damage to
Futures image?

I'm almost certain OPS2 are
going to be totally honest with this review. I was
reading what Tim Clark had to say on the PS board
yesterday in their 'forum chat' & he said
something along the lines of 'I suggest you read
our review before judging us" & "All I can say
is read the review". This, whether it does or not,
will be a very good time for OPS2 to prove
themselves to their readers - & I bet they're
just going to jump at the chance to give this a
right good bashing. PSM2 didn't quaver in putting
the boot in to OPS2's review of Tomb Raider last
year so I doubt OPS2 will either.

At the
very most expect a
7.
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:11
pm    Post
subject:

Can't we all
just go back to drinking bear and eating pizza?

_________________
I came here to
chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm all out of
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Pell
Veteran Member

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts:
2689
Location: Modding at The Fun House

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:39
pm    Post
subject:

Now this is
intriguing. I just looked at http://www.gameplay.co.uk/ and
there's an interview with one of the makers who
had this to say:

Gameplay
wrote:

2 - How long has Driver 3 been
in development for and, what stage is it at?

It really depends when you count the
start of development. The physics engine which
forms the basis for the dynamics side of the
game started over 4 years ago but that was
originally used in Stuntman. Around 3 years ago
work started on Driver 3 in earnest. Right now
we are just scripting the missions, optimising
bits of the code and working on the out of car
sections. The
physics and dynamics side of the cars has been
pretty much finished for a while
now.

So this suggests that
whilst on-foot sections were in production, they
had completed the driving part of the game. This
interview couldn't have been that recent if the
missions were still being scripted, so the
unfinished code would, it seems, have a completed
driving section. Unless 'optimising bits of code'
refers to ironing out a few driving
bugs?
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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6606
Location: Certainty

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:44
pm    Post
subject:

Pell
wrote:

so the unfinished code would, it
seems, have a completed driving section. Unless
'optimising bits of code' refers to ironing out
a few driving bugs?

Such as flying cars, being
able to drive through the walls of certain
buildings, appalling enemy car AI.......etc etc
etc.

While the handling and physics were
basically lifted from their Stuntman game and
tweaked, and were therefore finished ultra-early,
the mission structure and basic building blocks of
the actual game are where it all seems to have
gone wrong.
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
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GwiDan
Veteran Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts:
5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:27
pm    Post
subject:

I got a reply
from Mia Roberts, Publishing Director of the
Future Games division a while ago - it's plenty to
be disappointed about. Simply, it's all corporate
rubbish; as Eighthours eloquently put, "a cut and
paste job". According to Miss Roberts, Future
staff would never bow to any kind of pressure when
it comes to reviewing, opinions are the writers'
own and not influenced by outside or commercial
pressures. Future never has or will tamper with
review scores.

That's extremely
difficult to believe.

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:30
pm    Post
subject:

In this case
Gwi, it's utter tosh.
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came here to chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm
all out of ass.

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