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Driv3r Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part II)
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GreenGecko
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Joined: 29 Dec 2003
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Location: The Watershed.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:53 pm    Post subject: |

What is it with this? Has the general gaming press started to accept huge bugs, like those found in Driv3r, as "normal"? Because the reviews criticised in this (brilliant) topic and even the BBC one posted by KKLEIN all fail to mention these bugs. It's simply terrible, this growing trend among critics to simply disregard technical flaws in games. Would you notice if there was a cigarette burn on the film for Lord of the Rings? Would you notice someone talking in the background of a Red Hot Chili Peppers recording? Yes? Well then why the hell do, it seems, some people not notice when your car in a game drives directly through a wall?

Games journalism today is becoming as poor as the average writer's confusion between a sentence and a paragraph, and I am, quite frankly, not going to put up with it. Things like this have always been a pain in my backside and personally I'm very happy to see things like this being noticed. It is just not acceptable.

Some of the writing quality is as insulting to me as it would be to any A* GCSE English student for crying out loud, yet alone a proffesional journalist. To think that to make money the best publishers can do is take bribes rather than hiring better writers is simply pathetic, and above all, lazy.
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the_shadow
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:59 pm    Post subject: |

Who bets Edge have just changed their score from 9 to 3 so as not to enrage us further?
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Driv3r is hard because it wasn't designed at all.

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Eighthours
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Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6606
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:01 pm    Post subject: |

GreenGecko wrote:

Yeah, that interview with the former EDGE editor (posted a few pages back) acknowledged that. He was basically saying that if the paymasters pay sh*t money, they've got to expect to get sh*t writers. Of course there are some very good videogames journalists around, but the formula of "oh-so-funny.....not" opening paragraphs in reviews, and the miserable attempts at humour all the way through and hardly talking about the game itself, is really starting to piss me off whenever I read reviews from certain people....
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OctogenarianPussy
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: |

Those copies of ET buried in the desert are getting lonely.
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Eighthours
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: |

the_shadow wrote:
Who bets Edge have just changed their score from 9 to 3 so as not to enrage us further?

Just you. Does anyone have any quotes from the text?
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GreenGecko
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: |

Edge = one of the few decent gaming mags left, which in my opinion includes Games TM, NGC and Famitsu as well as a few notable others, which I can't remember. Oh and I forgot The guide .

I particularly like Red Eye's work in Edge.
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Sprite Machine
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Location: London

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: |

Eighthours wrote:

dodgy_dave wrote:
And Driver 1 was excellent....

.....in 1999.

Driver 1 is excellent! As a matter of fact, I've just ordered the PC version today ('cos my PSone disc is buggered), and it's far better than Driver 3. Oh yes.

(It's a rather bizarre concept that gameplay can get worse with age; it's not like you can't enjoy old films or old music, is it?)

geff wrote:

When you go to watch a movie your are being fed a story, you have no control over its outcome and therefore you either enjoy it or you dont, you can however state reasons why you may not have enjoyed it i.e poor character emotions or plain bad acting.

In the case of a game you are in control... you have a part in making the story and making the enjoyment for yourself. In the game driv3r your enjoyment is not hindered by your own doing it is hindered by the unarguable flaws and design bugs... metaphorically similar to if one of the actors in "The day After Tomorrow" suddenly stops and says "...er what are my lines again?". If that had happened no film review could deny it being there, much like no magazine should have denied the faults in Driv3r being there.

That's a rather flawed argument, isn't it?
How is it easier to point out the flaws in a piece of interactive audio-visual media than it is to point them out in a non-interactive one?
Some people seem to think that music and film are immune to professional criticism and that you can only "say whether you like it or not"; that's just utter bollocks. It's quite easy to point out 'flaws' in films and in music; professionals who have studied such things are trained to look out for techniques used, whether those be directing techniques, use of music chords, tempo, rhythm, pacing, structure... things which they universally consider important and necessary to point out. This is no different from pointing out the 'flaws' in a game.
Ultimately, however, no matter how you try to justify it, no matter what way you look at it, it's still just a matter of opinion. It's one person giving their view of what should or should not be happening within the game world.
Unless, of course, Reflections came on here and told us they'd made it all wrong and we're all right.

dodgy_dave wrote:
From the beginning I've been saying I don't let the flaws get in the way of what I see to be a great game. If others choose to then that's up to them.

The bonnet flipping up and blocking my view of the road was always a bit of flaw in my eyes. One of many, of course.

(And obvisouly somehting the original Driver didn't have a problem with! Technology: Kills games, dead.)

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Eighthours
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:04 pm    Post subject: |

Sprite Machine wrote:

Eighthours wrote:

dodgy_dave wrote:
And Driver 1 was excellent....

.....in 1999.

Driver 1 is excellent! As a matter of fact, I've just ordered the PC version today ('cos my PSone disc is buggered), and it's far better than Driver 3. Oh yes.

(It's a rather bizarre concept that gameplay can get worse with age; it's not like you can't enjoy old films or old music, is it?)

geff wrote:

When you go to watch a movie your are being fed a story, you have no control over its outcome and therefore you either enjoy it or you dont, you can however state reasons why you may not have enjoyed it i.e poor character emotions or plain bad acting.

In the case of a game you are in control... you have a part in making the story and making the enjoyment for yourself. In the game driv3r your enjoyment is not hindered by your own doing it is hindered by the unarguable flaws and design bugs... metaphorically similar to if one of the actors in "The day After Tomorrow" suddenly stops and says "...er what are my lines again?". If that had happened no film review could deny it being there, much like no magazine should have denied the faults in Driv3r being there.

That's a rather flawed argument, isn't it?
How is it easier to point out the flaws in a piece of interactive audio-visual media than it is to point them out in a non-interactive one?
Some people seem to think that music and film are immune to professional criticism and that you can only "say whether you like it or not"; that's just utter bollocks. It's quite easy to point out 'flaws' in films and in music; professionals who have studied such things are trained to look out for techniques used, whether those be directing techniques, use of music chords, tempo, rhythm, pacing, structure... things which they universally consider important and necessary to point out. This is no different from pointing out the 'flaws' in a game.
Ultimately, however, no matter how you try to justify it, no matter what way you look at it, it's still just a matter of opinion. It's one person giving their view of what should or should not be happening within the game world.
Unless, of course, Reflections came on here and told us they'd made it all wrong and we're all right.

dodgy_dave wrote:
From the beginning I've been saying I don't let the flaws get in the way of what I see to be a great game. If others choose to then that's up to them.

The bonnet flipping up and blocking my view of the road was always a bit of flaw in my eyes. One of many, of course.

(And obvisouly somehting the original Driver didn't have a problem with! Technology: Kills games, dead.)

You watch.....in a few months we'll get a very juicy interview telling us exactly what went wrong with Driv3r by some Reflections bod, either when they get a new publisher for their next game or when someone big leaves the company. It's happened before.....
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OctogenarianPussy
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Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:07 pm    Post subject: |

Yes, I sense an Edge retrospective featuring all the prominent cast.
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KKLEIN
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:09 pm    Post subject: |

Even Totalgames.net have got a discussion going on about it - it's headed "Scandal at Future Publishing". Couldn't of put it better myself.
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GreenGecko
Experienced Member

Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 1868
Location: The Watershed.

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject: |

Sorry but this particular "reader review" of Driv3r from a Gamespot Complete membership amused me...

NbaDanny15 wrote:

Gamespot, shame on you.. i mean come on the game is amazing. I understand why xbox got a low low review.. to much glitches in that version of it. As u can tell I have the ps2 version and i only noticed about 2 glitches hands down. Its very fun and enjoyable although i have to admit i like driver1 a lil more. Great game and should be a high rating if u ask me. I wish they delayed it a lil longer to fix those glitches and make it smoother and away from glitching but no game is perfect. Gta, why freaking compare that to this.. this is more life like and i think driv3r is better in everyway. well i give it a 9 and if u play it and understand the story ull love it. but gamespots review shouldnt fool u at all just head over to http://www.dri3vr.com/ click forum and check out what ppl are saying about xbox and ps2 versions.
Gameplay-9

Graphics-8

Sound-10

Value-9

Tilt-9

By NbaDanny15 [POSTED: 2004-06-22 10:12:43]

I wonder why people at the official Driv3r foums love it so much...
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Jonny_Darko
Member

Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 124

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:19 pm    Post subject: |

KKLEIN wrote:
Even Totalgames.net have got a discussion going on about it - it's headed "Scandal at Future Publishing". Couldn't of put it better myself.

Linky? I cannee find it.

Sorry I'm being dumb. Just trying to register for their forums but it doesn't seem to be working.

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OctogenarianPussy
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Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 649
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: |

What is "tilt" and how does that get a nine?
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Prophet Hero
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Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 988
Location: England

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: |

OctogenarianPussy wrote:
Yes, I sense an Edge retrospective featuring all the prominent cast.

A special "The Non-making of...Driv3r"?
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jamiej
Member

Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 288

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: |

A small addition...
Kerrang mag gave it 5/5
though thats more down to their style i think.
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