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Driv3r
Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part
II)
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Pug
Fugly
Experienced
Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts:
836
Location: Idiotsville

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:16
pm    Post
subject:

Stephen
wrote:

Sorry - but anyone giving that
particular game a nine ( and possibly parting
anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a
prick.

If you don't get banned for
this, you're a lucky man.

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Pug
Fugly
Experienced
Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts:
836
Location: Idiotsville

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:18
pm    Post
subject:

Cal
wrote:

GR proves it's worth on this
one issue alone - you wanna hear the truth about
a game, hear it from real players,
with real
experiences of the
game.

With real alterior
motives, and real irrational
hatred..

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6605
Location: Certainty

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:20
pm    Post
subject:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

Cal
wrote:

GR proves it's worth on this
one issue alone - you wanna hear the truth about
a game, hear it from real players,
with real
experiences of the
game.

With real alterior
motives, and real
irrational hatred..

In the GR world, as in the
world of mags, films, music and such-like, you
just have to separate the wheat from the chaff!
There is wisdom on these forums if you look for
it!
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
live

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HailToTheKingBaby!
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
2509

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:20
pm    Post
subject:

I can
understand that they reviewed unfinished code in
order to get the exclusive, but I would've
expected them to have mentioned this fact along
with the bugs in the review and the fact that
Atari had promised to iron them out in the
released version - a small paragraph would have
done the job and at least then, people could place
the blame with Atari for misleading the magazine
rather than with the magazine for misleading its
readers as is seemingly the case at the
moment.
_________________
http://www.silver-sun.co.uk/ -
Best.. band.. ever..!

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John
Square
Experienced
Member

Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts:
376

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:22
pm    Post
subject:

I agree with
Thanatos there: I dodn't think that Nellis
deserved a comment like that after being big
enough to justify (which he isn't obliged to do) a
review score in his magazine.

I'm certain
that he acted aboveboard (in the sense that no
blatant bribes were passed) but there is a very
cozy (by dint of necessity?) relationship between
magazines-esp. official ones- and PR companies and
the suchlike.

However, 9/10 for a game
that has attracted such damning criticism seems
like a major slip of judgement, however, and
-whilst I wouldn't phrase my feeelings in the same
way as Stephen and KKLEIN- certain magazines have
really let their readers down on this score. Your
readers do see your magazine as a way of deciding
where to spend their hard earned cash, or (for
your younger readers) what to ask for for their
birthdays.

Little Johnny would have been
very very upset if he'd been gifted Medal of
Honour: RS instead of something more worthwhile
for his big day, based on a review that seems to
have been a pile of mouldy dog logs.

How
to fix it though, Mr Ellis?

I think
Phantom Burn hit the nail on the head- perhaps
with a subsequent re-evaluation of the review
score. It'd definitely get a bit more of a
community going for your publication. I may even
buy a copy myself.

But a sincere thanks
for giving your side of the stpry. Even if we
don't agree with what we hear, it's a nice
change.

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Pug
Fugly
Experienced
Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts:
836
Location: Idiotsville

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:25
pm    Post
subject:

Eighthours
wrote:

In the GR world, as in the
world of mags, films, music and such-like, you
just have to separate the wheat from the chaff!
There is wisdom on these forums if you look for
it!

I know that.... I use this
forum as my primary source for opinions myself. Of
course, if invincible & Solo told me a game
was awesome, I'd seek out a few more opinions

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Stephen
Member

Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts:
156
Location: Japan

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:26
pm    Post
subject:

Sorry, just
feeling a little salty. Steve's initial questions
are right. It really annoys me when people pay
over the odds for a payed-for pamphlet that sells
itself as a magazine. Any mag that gives something
like MOH RS a nine should be flamed.
Sorry.

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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member

Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts:
649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available
now

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:29
pm    Post
subject:

Nick,

Thanks for putting across your side of the
story.

But just stand back for one moment
and consider how it looks. You have an exclusive
review, your reputation (and endorsement) on the
box and a glowing review inside of your magazine.
At best it makes you look foolish for loving a
game that is so obviously broken in so many places
that your objectivity comes into question. At
worst it makes it look like you've colluded with
the publisher. Either way the situation isn't good
is it?

The questions behind the murky
morality of these issues can never really be
separated. But when things like this happen you
must at least question the process. Is reviewing
unfinished code the right thing to do? No it isn't
is it? Because now you've been burned. And rightly
so. It's a bloody mess.
_________________
I
came here to chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm
all out of ass.

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the one and
only
Veteran
Member

Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts:
5656
Location: The Millenium Dome

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:30
pm    Post
subject:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

Stephen
wrote:

Sorry - but anyone giving that
particular game a nine ( and possibly parting
anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a
prick.

If you don't get banned
for this, you're a lucky
man.

Banned for telling the truth.
What a feeling that must
be.
_________________
Behind you,
boo!
...oh, wrong box.
Xbox Live
gamertag: Extreme Ironing

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Cal
Experienced Member

Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts:
1324

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:32
pm    Post
subject:

the one and only
wrote:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

Stephen
wrote:

Sorry - but anyone giving that
particular game a nine ( and possibly parting
anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a
prick.

If you don't get banned
for this, you're a lucky
man.

Banned for telling the
truth. What a feeling that must
be.

Pug's feeling a bit punchy
this afternoon. He'll settle down.

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Stephen
Member

Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts:
156
Location: Japan

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:33
pm    Post
subject:

the one and only
wrote:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

Stephen
wrote:

Sorry - but anyone giving that
particular game a nine ( and possibly parting
anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a
prick.

If you don't get banned
for this, you're a lucky
man.

Banned for telling the
truth. What a feeling that must
be.

If it happens, Cheers (and PM
me for any stuff you want from Japan)

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GwiDan
Veteran Member

Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts:
5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:41
pm    Post
subject:

KKLEIN
wrote:

How in the hell can you review
unfinished code, it's giving totally the wrong
impression to the
reader.

To be fair, while you may
sound harsh, you're completely right. If a
magazine reviews a "review copy" then surely us
consumers have a right [morally or otherwise] to
buy that
review copy, or the magazine must withdraw their
review as inaccurate and irrelevant. Whatever you
may think of magazines like Edge, they don't go
after "exclusives", so their reviews are unlikely
to be of incomplete code. With them, you're more
likely to get a marked-down score than up - which
is actually better.

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Pug
Fugly
Experienced
Member

Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts:
836
Location: Idiotsville

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:42
pm    Post
subject:

the one and only
wrote:

Pug Fugly
wrote:

Stephen
wrote:

Sorry - but anyone giving that
particular game a nine ( and possibly parting
anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a
prick.

If you don't get banned
for this, you're a lucky
man.

Banned for telling the
truth. What a feeling that must
be.

Well, I've seen people
banned for less around here. After all, the guy
didn't have to come on here, and probably won't
again if this is the reception he gets (some
trumped up hardcore gamer calling him a prick).

Whatever, I'm just grateful we'd have a
reply.... saying that though, whatever actually
did happen, his reply would read the same anyway.
He's hardly likely to come on here and say "Yes,
you were all right, they slipped me a crisp £20
note to give it a good mark - it's shite
really"...

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KKLEIN
Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts:
8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:42
pm    Post
subject:

An in-depth
preview would of sufficed. Reading your review the
reader is lead to believe the game is great, which
it's not. The reader is led to believe the game
was finished, which it wasn't. The reader was lead
to believe the game was near perfect, which it
isn't. It's just plain dishonesty.

The
same applies to the Medal of Honor review. Again
none of the faults were mentioned. Reading that
review in OPS2 (which I have) I was lead to
believe the game was fantastic, which once again
couldn't be further from the truth. It's just not
on.

What you just said also clashes with
something Tim Clark said on the Playstation Forums
a while ago, he said they don’t review, exclusive
or not, unfinished code. Abother thing, all gaming
magazines under the Future publishing roof seem to
slag each other off yet you all work in the same
building, & even contribute to each, if not
most, of the magazines. Fake rivalry? Bit sad
isn’t it…
_________________
That's a disc drive.
What's been in them you ask? Well:

PS2 - Smackdown
HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r

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Eighthours
Moderator

Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts:
6605
Location: Certainty

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:54
pm    Post
subject:

By the way,
anyone remember this?

psm2, on this very
forum on Tuesday June 8
wrote:

Hello there,

PSM2 here.
Respect to all forum men. We love your work.

Some facts:
The Driv3r code was
and is finished.
The score was a
group descision (as are all our review marks).

We liked it (and the things we didn't like
are ripped apart in the review).

Thanks,

PSM2.

Can we sue?

AND.....the contribution from Mr Ellis
makes it clear that Atari told the guys at Xbox
World that their review copy wasn't final code.

I'm quite disturbed that someone came on
here a couple of weeks ago from PSM2 and told us a
blatant
lie.
_________________
Humiliate John Rodney Bennett

Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do
it quickly....you've only got eight hours to
live

Last edited by Eighthours
on Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in
total

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